Can we stop the language bashing please ?
With some regularity articles are being penned about the shortcomings of language x,y or z.
It doesn't matter which language has it's turn, be it Perl, PHP, Python or something else, they all seem to get their share of trash heaped on them from time to time.
Invariably these articles become very popular and get linked from all over the web because they appeal to a very human instinct, the fear of the 'other' and the group against the individual.
Of course, there will be those that will argue that criticism is good and that this will lead to improvements, but in actual fact the criticism is uniformly negative, usually quite childish and un-actionable, one step shy of a value statement about the users of those languages.
It's just a good old hanging party in disguise.
Instead of bashing the other guys language let's try to take a positive attitude for a change and turn the whole thing upside down.
Which features in the language that you so despise would enhance the tools that you use on a daily basis. I'm sure there is something the PHP aficionados could learn from Python - and vice versa! Ditto for all the other languages. Lisp isn't perfect (if it were everybody would be using it) and neither is Java (but you already knew that).
Don't get lost in the stupid nearly religious argument that because 'only inexperienced people use x' or 'only theoretical programmers use y' you wouldn't be seen near it or caught dead with a manual for that particular language, unless it was to light a bonfire.
Every language, including the most vile but still Turing complete abomination (I'm looking at you, mumps) has something that we can all learn from and something that is worth singling out for admiration.
Get of your high horse already, it's not the end of the world that some people use a tool other than the one that you are most comfortable with, or that you have invested the most time in. It doesn't make you any more wrong than 'they' are.
The time you spend bashing someone elses' tool you could be using to improve the mastery of your own.
Or are you that insecure that you can only raise your own (languages) profile by reducing someone elses?
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Don't hate languages, hate features
Bashing languages is like racism or web browser detection, where one discriminates based on class membership as opposed to the merits of specific traits. Criticizing cultures, applications, or languages is essentially an ad hominem attack directed at a non-human entity. Saying that "PHP sucks" is equivalent to saying "I hate {color} people". It may be elucidating to examine, say, function naming conventions or specific syntactical options, as it'd be relevant to language design generally, as opposed to being a dismissible attack.
Agreed
I'm primarily a Perl programmer.
I like the amount of introspection and the amazing maturity of code analysis tools in Java. I know a lot of that is a side-effect of things I don't like so much (the rigidity of the type system, for one), but nevertheless, it's neat.
Also, log4java is the right way to do logs. I've just spent the last week retrofitting our current logging system with log4perl, which is a direct imitation. And it's great. This is an example of stealing from when others get it right!
I like how easy it is for someone to code up a simple web application in php, particularly with limited background. The language may not scale up in complexity without a few bumps, but in terms of the amount of effort before you can do something useful on the web, it's wonderful.
I like how Ruby, and in particular Ruby on Rails, demonstrated the power of a good web framework to make intermediate difficulty web projects a snap. I wouldn't start a new web project in any language now without seriously considering a Rails-esque framework. (In perl, the answer for me is Catalyst.)
Finding the gems in other languages, and bringing them back into the one you like, is a way better use of time than bashing. Especially since most bashing of perl (and I assume other languages) is actually bashing of perl from 2001, and ignoring the fact that a vibrant open source project has actually addressed most of the concerns that aren't intrinsic design decisions, and quite a few that are. (IE, don't complain about perl's objects if you don't know what Moose is.)
Hypocrisy
There is a lot of language bias shown in this article, and even more in the comments. It looks like a noble attempt tainted by hypocrisy failed.
Ignor them and they will go away
If you simple ignore the posts/blogs/articles that contain this bashing it will never bother you.
Many, I think most already does that, but that is hard to notice.
If everyone else does this to, they will become dead threads, unread blogs and articles, and just be a waste of space on the net, hence they will be removed.
In one short sentence, don't feed the trolls.
Thanks tanel
fixed.
Lisp and Java
> Lisp isn't perfect (if it were everybody would be using it) and neither is Java (but you already knew that).
So you have to explain why Lisp isn't perfect, but it should be self evident to everyone why Java isn't perfect. You seem to have defeated the whole point of your post by expressing your in-built language prejudices...
What is "Tur_n_ing"
What is "Tur_n_ing" complete? lol
it's Turing, not Turning
it's Turing, not Turning
But... PHP really does suck
But... PHP really does suck :\ Its syntax is an atrocity.
Language bashing will continue there is no end
I guess language bashing will continue, for that matter even framework bashing will keep continuing until the makers of the language/framework donot get in some common paradigm. One can understand a comparison between Opensource V/S microsoft but why do we keep comparing Ruby To Python, Java To Ruby
Seems like every one is trying to develop their own framework and follow their own paradigm when doing development, they do what they feel best without defining what is the END goal of it in Software development.
Java for eg. seems to be having too many frameworks, they are too difficult to adopt for a lay men and they seems to Fighting between themseleves, God knows where are they heading as well